Holy mother of holding value...

"PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power" (petarvn)
06/14/2014 at 13:03 • Filed to: None

I knew Jeep wranglers held their value, but this is just insane!
Take !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! one for example . It's basically the ideal '88 wrangler. inline 6, 5-speed, and well maintained.. HE WANTS $6,000 FOR IT. WHAT?

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Next, take a !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! at this one. This one's a '94 Sahara wrangler with the inline 6 and an auto 'box. even though it's 20 years old, and has done almost 200,000 miles, he's still asking $5,000 for it! WHAT??

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...Welp, there goes my plan of buying a cheap jeep this coming winter/spring

DISCUSSION (12)

GhostZ > PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power
06/14/2014 at 13:05

They have a high utility floor, similar to pickups.

PheeNoIVI > PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power
06/14/2014 at 13:19

Im not sure mileage matters on Jeeps, they break down the same new or old, so id go for one if i were you.

Jedidiah > PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power
06/14/2014 at 13:21

You don't want a YJ. With those leafs, they axle hop like a sumbitch.

Even if you do get a TJ with superior coils, it will cost you. And it won't be good for anything from the factory. Jeeps can't tow anything and you'll bust up everything unless it has skidplates like a Rubicon. IMO, I believe any offroader is useless unless it has locking axles. Wranglers are hardly worth the money you put into them.

If you want a cheap Jeep, you got to go old-school full-size or get a Cherokee. I don't like the unibody Cherokees and the AMC fullsizes will require alot of work depending on the year. The AMC 20 axle is garbage and their motors are wheezy and can be difficult to find parts for.

If you really want a Wrangler, look for a 97-03 Wrangler with a 4-cylinder or an old mail service Jeep. They're cheap and they came with stronger axles than the sixes.

Not trying to piss off Jeep fans (I love them myself), but they are not as useful as every makes them out to be. They are an expensive backwoods toy and are rarely suitable for anything else.

Mr. Ontop, No Strokes, No Smokes...Goes Fast. > PetarVN, GLI Guy, now with stupid power
06/14/2014 at 13:30

My dad had a Jeep for a while. His advice was this, "If you buy a Jeep, you need to be sure you have a really good set of tools too, because you're going to need them." I think it''s sort og like the classic VW people, if you love them, that's just an accepted part of ownership.

Garrett Davis > Jedidiah
06/14/2014 at 13:40

I disagree with most of this.

Jedidiah > Garrett Davis
06/14/2014 at 14:02

You might disagree with my opinion about locking axles and the extent of their usefullness, but the rest of what I said is realistic or based off fact.

Leaf springs Jeep have bad axle hop. They have a low tow rating and not alot of cargo space even with the seats removed. If you are going to more serious trails rather than just mudding, you will need skidplates or you will bust up your transfer case and pans. Cherokees and full-sizes can generally be had cheaper than a Wrangler, but wil require the same kind of work to be set up. The AMC 20 axle is weak unless it built a certain way, which nowhere near as cost effective as a Dana axle. Mail jeeps came with Dana 44 front axle instead of a Dana 30. The AMC motors have list of known problems and the powerband drops off rapidly approaching the midrange, thus they feel wheezy and are often swapped.

Team6.1 > Jedidiah
06/14/2014 at 14:16

Yes and no. Jeeps can take plenty of abuse without skid plates, especially in wood/mud setting. I crawl all the time and don't know anyone who actually bought skid plates.

Locking axles will get you the most performance offroad, better than lifts or tires. The biggest benefit of the Rubicon is Dana 44 axles opposed to the 30/35 in other models.

Yes you pay a premium, but the advantage of a jeep is an abundance of aftermarket parts, the ease of being able to to anything and everything to it relatively simply, and lots of jeep clubs with good people.

I don't think wranglers are the end all be all of offroad vehicles, they are the best at some stuff, and get outshined in other areas.

In terms of the 4 cylinder, extremely underpowered. Especially if you add bigger tires. Mine is currently 4.88 gears because I crawl most of the time. You'll also never see one in a junkyard, but you could also build one from scratch out of a parts catalog. Buy one if you want one, but there would certainly be cheaper ways to get a comparable off road toy

Jedidiah > Team6.1
06/14/2014 at 14:46

I agree with you said. I prefer to have the skid-plates just in case; my parent's Rubicons came factory with them. The four cylinder jeeps are only useful for an inexpesive rolling chasis; if it were mine, I'd swap it.

The only problem I have with Jeeps is that they seem to cost more than they're worth sometimes and that people are EXTREMELY unrealistic about how durable/useful stock Jeeps are. They are an extremely good vehicle when they are set up properly, but they have cornered the market. It's kind of like how the Miata is the definitive small, affordable sports car; the Jeep Wrangler is the definitive small, solid-axle SUV.

I'd like to own/build one for myself someday, but the premium niche market turns me off a little.

Garrett Davis > Jedidiah
06/14/2014 at 15:06

Actually it's most of the other stuff that I disagree with. Locking differentials should be one of the first upgrades done to a Jeep that will see any real trail, but for someone who just does it as a light hobby, they're not essential.

The things I disagree with:

1. The axle hop is really not that big of a deal. It's not nearly as bad as you describe, and is nearly irrelevant for most rock crawling. Ideally you shouldn't be spinning your tires enough for that to be a problem (find another line), but even when it does, sometimes that can find itself new groves in the surface to bite into. I've done a lot of rock crawling with YJs, and they do excellent.

2. XJ Cherokees and their unibodies are just fine off road. Seriously, only the most hardcore offroaders really have a problem here, and when the mods get that extensive, you would be bracing the frame of a Wrangler as well, so it really isn't exclusive to the Cherokee. For anything less, even a simple set of rock sliders will do a ton to stiffen up the chassis, which is a pretty standard upgrade anyway, and is just an added bonus of peace of mind.

3. The need for skid plates is highly exaggerated here. There really isn't a whole lot that you'll be hitting that the factory skidplate/trans brace won't absorb already, and that thing is beefy as hell. The main points of impact are the front and rear pumpkins, and the power steering box. Skid plates for those are very cheap, and in the case of the power steering box still aren't 100% necessary for most trails, just nice to have.

4. The Dana 30/35 combo is a bit weak once you start getting into 35" tires and up, but there are lots of upgrade kits available, and in the case of the XJ, they had the 8.25C rear axle as a pretty common option, and the high pinion D30 standard, which is a much stronger alternative, and is a very common junk yard swap into TJs because it just bolts right up. Both of those axles will hold 35's just fine, and can get by on 37's if you're not super hard on the throttle. Also, LJs got D44 rear axles stock.

5. Cargo space is limited in Wranglers, but honestly I have been out with plenty of Jeep clubs for long camping trips, and it is pretty damn rare for anyone to have a problem carrying everything they need for the whole trip. Some use roof racks and tire carriers to hold extra stuff, but you'd be surprised how much you can fit into the back of a Jeep. I know because my buddy and I would even sleep in our Jeeps on weekend trips while carrying food, coolers, spare parts, extra gas, full sized spares, lots of tools, etc. The Cherokee on the other hand can fit an insane amount of stuff, especially once you add a tire carrier.

6. Yes, initial cost of a Wrangler is high, but that's because they are in high demand. The part where they make up for this is in the insane aftermarket selection. It is such a competitive market that there are always tons of choices, and plenty excellent choices that can be had on the cheap. I built up a Wrangler while in high school on a pizza boy's budget, and then moved on to an XJ and built that up as well. Lift kits, lockers, big tires, aftermarket bumpers and tire carriers, a winch, you name it. Also, a tastefully modified Wrangler won't be that much or any more expensive than a clean stock one. Many times upgrades actually hurt a car's value rather than increase it.

Kinja'd!!!

Jedidiah > Garrett Davis
06/14/2014 at 16:05

You make good points.

I can live with the trade-offs of owning a Jeep; I love them. I prefer to have the skid plates just in case. Although irrelevant to crawling, I dislike axle hop since I like to be able to drive things on the street wihout being beat to death. All the YJs I've been in are nowhere near as smooth-riding as a TJ, and those weren't smooth to begin with. This is a personal criticism; not critical if your vehicle never sees the street though.

The OP said he was looking for a cheap Jeep, which is a rarity if you want a good one. Although they have a wealth of aftermarket parts, you do pay a premium for owning a Jeep since they have the market cornered for small, solid-axle SUVs (thus demand/prices are high). I was trying to illustrate this to the OP and point out some of the flaws with looking for a cheap, base-model Jeep. Unfortanetly, the Jeeps around where I live are not tastefully modified and the unibody Cherokees are often hiding intense rot under cheap diamond plate. You look like you live around an area where you can find good crawlers; most things around here are pitiful hillbilly mud trucks. This and the high initial price turns me off from Jeeps, which are primarily recreational vehicle.

Jeeps can carry plenty of gear for one or two people, but I go camping mainly with the Boys Scouts and we often share vehicles/carpool. Jeeps start to feel cramped in scenarios where you are carrying other people's gear in addition to your own. I would love to have a roof rack.

Team6.1 > Jedidiah
06/14/2014 at 16:08

My jeep was fun stock, it's more fun now that I've put double into it than what I paid for it. In terms of rock crawling it surpasses everything I've seen besides buggies. For high speed deserts, trails, mud, general dirt road/forest/dune shenanigans a truck or blazer would be great.

My dad had a jeep, so I got a jeep. I love driving without the doors/top

I've seen some little samurai kick ass offroad and I'm sure they are much much cheaper

Jedidiah > Team6.1
06/14/2014 at 16:19

I didn't say they weren't fun stock, just that people had unrealistic expectations about them.

I'd like a IH Scout, but they're even harder to find at a good price than Jeeps. Blazers and Broncos are cheap, but I'd rather build up a Jeep.

I'm interested in Samurais, but it is hard to find one that isn't ruined. My dad was used a Samurai to cross through the jungle on Vieques Island near Puerto Rico while he was on business. He said they kicked ass.